far as I can tell his emotional empathy is still exactly in that world of trying to make sure everybody has a good chance and a good life. But on top of that, he's the only person I've ever seen who put tremendous years of effort into figuring out what works. You know, he's written books on these topics, so he knows what works with homeless and with drug addiction because he looked at all the things that people have tried. And he knows that what California is doing is in the category of things which have been tried and failed. So he wants to try things that are in the category of things that have been tried and were greatly successful. How crazy is that?

So this is really interesting. What happens if somebody has the total skill stack from communication, writing, political knowledge — he's an expert on addiction, an expert on homelessness by virtue of having studied it for writing books, an expert on energy, nuclear power, climate change, and even forest management. So there's not a single topic that matters in California that Michael Shellenberger doesn't know twice as much as the current governor. Think about that. And this is a demonstrated fact. I'm not just saying, oh, he's smart. I think he's just smarter. It's not that. I'm saying you could just look at the documented life of both people and you can see that Shellenberge