mple where somebody on one side was making a legitimate effort to persuade the other side? It doesn't really—they don't really frame it that way, do they? The language people use is so directed at their own side that they end up pacing themselves. This is the biggest mistake you could make in persuasion.

Yes, somebody said to Hawk Newsom. So what made Hawk Newsom rise to prominence, at least people on the right and Trump supporters noticing how effective he was, is that he broke that rule. He paced the people he was trying to persuade, the Trump supporters. He said, "Yeah, I get it. I hear what you're saying." And as soon as he said that, all the Trump supporters said, "Okay, what do you have to say though?" If you missed that, there's the famous video of Hawk Newsom protesting originally a bunch of Trump supporters who were having a free speech rally. They called him up on stage and it looked like it was gonna be a whole show. If you didn't know anything about the people involved you say, "Oh god, this doesn't look good. There's gonna be a riot here."

And then what did Hawk Newsom do? He paced the audience. He said as clearly as possible, "I totally hear you. I hear you." Yep. And then he spoke it back so that we knew we actually heard it. And when he was done doing that, the entire crowd just went, "Oh, all right, you heard us. And now you talk." It was like this amazing moment in American politics.

Dave Rubin does that. Yes, he does, right? I haven't watched Jordan Peterson enough to know if he does that, but I'll bet he does because I've seen him enough to know that he would know to do that. So he would be smart enough to use persuasion and communication the way it should be used. So without seeing him do it, I'm sure he does. Joe Rogan, maybe. He's the type of personality you would. Yeah, I think I can think of examples where I've seen him do that. You're right. But consider how rare it is.

Diamond and Silk are on Capitol Hill today. Is that true?

Yeah, you know what else is a terrible argument? Here's the worst argument that the right makes. Would you like all the bad arguments on the right? Here's another bad one, same reason. When somebody says, "Hey, you would have all those KKK people voting for Trump," and then somebody on the right will say, "But what about 75 years ago? The KKK was Democrats." To which I say it's not 75 years ago. It's not an argument to say that different people did different things. That's not an argument about today. Nobody cares that different people did different things and those different people are all dead. That's no argument about today. So stop saying that.

You know, just accept that it's true that the racists do support the Republicans. But they do it for their own reasons, which is they're racists and they would like less immigration. If regular Republicans like immigration control for economic and crime reasons, how about just embrace that? They can like Trump for a different reason. Why is that a bad argument? Because here's the thing. Everybody recognizes those things as true or true enough.

Right, there's a time for me to go full-blown persuasion. How would you know if I did? I'm just looking at your comments right now.

All right, have you seen Hotep Jesus? I just recently started following him. Hotep Jesus. Keep in mind too that he's an entertainer who talks about politics. My brief watching of one of his periscopes tells me his talent stack is very well put together. So I like to put it in those. He has a number of talents that fit well together. But I'm gonna give him a little more attention and watch his act. But it seems like he can do a lot of things. He just has a lot of game in a lot of different areas and they come together really well.

Somebody believes I have super powers. Let me ask you this. Candace Owens just tweeted a plantation analogy. Yeah, I think I saw that this morning. So my suggestion to her—well, and let me clarify this. I've talked about persuasion being a case of two parts. One is get people's attention and then you apply your persuasion technique. So the getting-attention part can be messy, but you know, and this still works. So getting attention can be messy and still work. You see that Donald Trump does that. Candace got a lot of attention and brought a lot of energy to her points of view by calling it a Democrat plantation. That part is really good. So stirring up a little trouble, being a little controversial, using a provocative analogy, that is good. But you want to make sure that you can quickly progress to the "what are we doing now? What's next? What's tomorrow?" You just don't want to get locked in.

Persuasion equals manipulation. Yeah, let me answer that. Let me answer that question. That wasn't a question. So people always ask me what's the difference between persuading and manipulating. And the simple answer is intention. If I persuade you to buy a product which is actually good for you—let's say if you didn't ha